"Any insights?"
Zhu Biao immediately put the previous matter out of his mind and said with a hint of excitement in his tone:
"That Ma Yu is truly a man of great talent... a talent for governing the country."
Empress Ma's expression was somewhat surprised.
First, she had not expected that the matter of the Iron Voucher was not the first thing he brought up.
Second, she had not expected that his evaluation of Ma Yu would be so extraordinarily high.
This made her very curious. What on earth had the two of them discussed in the prison to make her son's attitude change so drastically?
"Calm down now and tell me slowly. What did he say to you?"
Zhu Biao scratched his head with some embarrassment. After composing his excitement, he recounted the conversation between the two of them to her.
Upon hearing Ma Yu's analysis of the five essential elements of a capital city, Empress Ma only nodded slightly, showing no surprise.
It was not that she thought these five points were wrong.
On the contrary, she believed that Ma Yu's analysis had taken every aspect into consideration and was already quite perfect.
It was just that today's conversation was a continuation and supplementation of the previous topic.
That he could speak of these five points was expected; it would have been strange if he could not.
However, through these five points, she also confirmed one thing.
Ma Yu had indeed received a systematic education, and had deduced from his learning that Zhu Yuanzhang would return disappointed, rather than simply guessing blindly out of sheer luck.
When she heard Ma Yu's characterization of the Iron Voucher incident, the expression on her face finally changed.
She made Zhu Biao recount every single sentence to her, sometimes even asking repeatedly about a specific word until she was certain.
This made Zhu Biao find it quite strange. Although Ma Yu's analysis was unique, surely it wasn't enough to make his mother attach such great importance to it?
Therefore, he voiced his confusion.
Faced with her son's question, Empress Ma pondered for a moment before giving her answer:
"He understands the learning of emperors."
"Ah?" Zhu Biao could not help crying out in surprise:
"The learning of emperors? Him?"
It was not that he disbelieved his own mother, but this was simply too incredible.
Even if Ma Yu had a master to guide him, to say it was related to the learning of emperors was going far too exaggeratingly far.
The crucial point was, why hadn't he heard anything related to emperors in those remarks of his?
Could it be that considering problems from the perspective of an emperor was the learning of emperors?
Empress Ma could naturally see her son's confusion and explained the underlying logic to him in detail.
The learning of emperors sounded lofty and profound, but in reality, it was not that mysterious.
To put it bluntly, it was how to cultivate the mindset and vision of a ruler.
This was precisely what the founding group of the Great Ming lacked the most; even Zhu Yuanzhang, Empress Ma, and the others only understood it vaguely.
They could only learn and imitate by studying the imperial affairs recorded in historical texts.
Zhu Yuanzhang had read the imperial volumes of official histories over and over again.
Empress Ma read them herself as well, and she also read biographies of empresses throughout the dynasties to learn how to be a qualified empress.
Yet, as everyone knew, some things were simply never recorded in books.
Many aspects of mindset could not be transmitted through written words and books either.
They had to be slowly cultivated through personal instruction and daily influence.
The great aristocratic families had once hindered social development, but from another perspective, much knowledge was also precisely preserved and passed down through them.
Ordinary people found it hard enough just to stay alive, and had no ability to protect books.
In times of war, only the great aristocratic families had the capability to transport books thousands of miles to safe places.
As for mindset and vision... it was not that the scions of noble families were smarter than ordinary people, but rather the result of their environment.
Through their family connections, aristocratic scions could come into contact with high-level secrets from a very young age.
Living in that environment, many things were understood as a matter of course.
To them, many things that they took for granted might be things ordinary people could never touch in a lifetime.
From the Xia Dynasty down to the Song Dynasty, the rulers of most dynasties were outstanding figures who stood out from the great aristocratic families.
They naturally possessed the mindset of rulers and mastered the knowledge of governing the world, without needing to study it deliberately.
What, you say Liu Bang?
The origins of Gaozu of Han, Liu Bang, are controversial, but at the very least, he belonged to the landowning class.
His younger brother, Liu Jiao, had in his youth studied under Fuqiubo, a disciple of Xunzi.
And Fuqiubo himself was one of the foremost great scholars of the late Qin and early Han dynasties.
To use an inappropriate metaphor, it was equivalent to your family using connections to send you directly to study by the side of an academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
Could this be an ordinary family?
One could only say that his background was not all that high, but he was definitely not from the impoverished lower strata of society.
Moreover, Liu Bang was surrounded by a whole group of descendants of the nobility of the six states, and they were teaching Liu Bang how to be a sovereign.
Yet what was the founding group of the Great Ming like?
This was not to belittle them; a group of people from humble origins relied on their own hard work to take charge of the realm.
This precisely proved that they were all outstanding heroes of their time.
However, conquering the realm and governing the realm were two different things; some matters were simply not understood if one had never learned them.
After all, she was teaching her own son, so Empress Ma was extremely attentive, taking the trouble to explain many points repeatedly without showing any impatience.
Zhu Biao finally understood what was going on, and also grasped what Ma Yu's analysis of the Iron Voucher signified.
At the end, Empress Ma sighed and said:
"If your father and I had understood the true arts of emperorship, we would never have devised such a harmful method as the Iron Voucher."
Zhu Biao hurriedly comforted her, saying, "Father and you acted out of good intentions; there is no need to blame yourselves."
"Besides, his analysis also clears my father's name... well, proves that your father is not a harsh and ungracious man."
"Never mind that the matter hasn't even happened yet; even if it had, it would have been for the long-term peace and stability of the realm."
Empress Ma glanced sideways at her son. So you were the one doubting your father all along, weren't you? Now you know you wronged him?
Caught in the act of what he was thinking, Zhu Biao felt thoroughly ill at ease and hurriedly changed the subject.
"Besides, how old is Ma Yu? I admit he is very talented, but to conclude that he understands imperial learning based solely on this point, I think is still somewhat hasty."
Empress Ma did not dwell on her son's blunder and nodded slightly, saying:
"What you say is not without reason, but he is already the person we have encountered who is most likely to understand imperial learning."
"Next, you must interact with him more and confirm as soon as possible whether he truly understands it."
"This point is extremely important to our family."
Zhu Biao said solemnly, "Rest assured, Mother, I will confirm this as soon as possible."
"However, I need to find a suitable topic first before I can go see him."
A thought stirred in Empress Ma's heart, and she said, "There is a suitable question right at hand."
Zhu Biao said with surprise, "Oh? I wonder what question that is."
Empress Ma smiled and said, "It is the exact question that caused Li Baishi and Liu Bowen to quarrel."
Zhu Biao's eyes lit up, and he said happily:
"Mother, you are truly brilliant! This is a wonderful topic. I will go to the prison to see him tomorrow."
Empress Ma stopped him, saying, "Don't be in such a rush. Think about this question yourself first and have a clear grasp of it before you go ask him."
"Besides, your frequent visits to the prison are also prone to arousing unnecessary suspicion."
Zhu Biao calmed down as well and said, "Yes, I understand."
"After a few days, I can use the excuse of going to visit my second brother, and then no one will be able to suspect anything."
Empress Ma said, "As long as you understand. Continue telling me what else the two of you discussed."
Zhu Biao nodded and continued recounting the conversation in the prison.
Only, to his astonishment, when he blurted out "Confucius and Mencius as the foundation, Guan Zhong and Xunzi as the application," Empress Ma sprang up from her chair with a start.
This sudden movement gave Zhu Biao a fright, and he asked hurriedly:
"Mother, what is wrong?"
Empress Ma said with excitement, "There is no need to verify it any further. This is precisely the learning of emperors!"
Zhu Biao was dumbfounded: "Ah? This... isn't this a strategy for governing the country?"
Empress Ma laughed in amusement and said, "Silly child, isn't a strategy for governing the country a part of imperial learning?"
Only then did Zhu Biao react, scratching his head as he said, "Uh... I was muddled."
It wasn't really that he was muddled; to put it plainly, he was still young.
Added to the fact that neither of his parents understood these things, he had nowhere to learn them either.
He simply hadn't thought in that direction at all.
Now, reminded by Empress Ma, he realized—wasn't this precisely the learning of emperors?
Empress Ma took a deep breath, steadied her excited emotions, and then said:
"He evaluated Guan Zhong as an administrator who starts everything from practicality."
"How is he himself any different? Otherwise, he would never have been able to transcend the limitations of scholarly schools and utter such words as 'Confucius and Mencius as the foundation, Guan Zhong and Xunzi as the application'."
Zhu Biao caught the underlying implication and hurriedly pressed further:
"Do you also agree with this viewpoint of his, Mother?"
Empress Ma did not answer directly, but instead said:
"Li Baishi is a follower of the Legalist school. Influenced by him, your father and I have also read many Legalist texts, among which is *Guanzi*."
"Many of our strategies for governing the country come precisely from the book *Guanzi*."
"As for the book *Xunzi*, influenced by Neo-Confucianism, we have never studied it and do not dare to evaluate it casually."
"However, since Ma Yu dares to say such a thing, there must certainly be reason behind it."
Zhu Biao's heart could not help leaping wildly. His mother's words undoubtedly meant that even if this viewpoint wasn't entirely correct, it was at least actionable.
In other words, Ma Yu not only understood statecraft but also the learning of emperors. How could this fail to excite him?
"Since he is a talent of such magnitude, should we pardon his crimes and release him?"
Empress Ma paused, shook her head, and said:
"No, there is no need to rush. Continue according to your plan to probe his bottom line and confirm how deep his learning is."
"Then find out his background, or at least understand his temperament."
"Besides, this matter is of great importance; we must wait for your father to return before making a decision."
Zhu Biao also came to his senses. Ma Yu held prejudices against the royal family, and whether he was willing to be employed by them remained unknown.
Indeed, he could not be released directly.
They had to first find a way to dissolve the resentment in his heart.
As for Ma Yu's temperament...
Zhu Biao recounted how he had persuaded Ma Yu not to hurl abuses at Zhu Yuanzhang.
"That Ma Yu was not even afraid of death, yet he changed his tune simply because he did not want to implicate us."
"For him to be like this just from receiving a slight kindness from the Second Brother, he must be a person who values relationships deeply."
Empress Ma said, "What you say is not without reason, but since this matter is of great importance, we still need to be cautious."
"Observing him a bit more will certainly do no harm."
Zhu Biao nodded slightly and said, "Yes, I have already instructed the Second Brother; he will certainly be able to figure out Ma Yu's character."
"If he truly is as clear-cut in his gratitude and resentment as he appears, he is well worth putting to good use."
Empress Ma agreed, "If he is clear-cut in gratitude and resentment, things will actually be much easier to handle."
Mother and son talked for a while longer and formulated a plan regarding Ma Yu.
It amounted to nothing more than resolving the enmity, binding him with grace and righteousness, and enlisting him to serve them.
Yes, they had already decided to pardon Ma Yu's crimes.
Because regardless of how high or low his abilities were, he at least understood some imperial learning.
This was too important to the Zhu family; it was worth making an exception for him.
However, Empress Ma added:
"How we treat him specifically will still depend on the extent of his talent."
To put it bluntly, the kind of treatment he received would depend on his own capability.
If he was nothing more than this, they would simply find a death-row inmate of a similar build to die in his place.
Then Ma Yu would hand over all his acquired learning and live out the rest of his life under an assumed identity.
If his abilities truly proved outstanding, he would naturally receive a correspondingly different treatment.
Zhu Biao had no objections to this, feeling only that his mother was truly wise and considered every single aspect of a matter.
Then, Empress Ma picked up her brush and wrote a letter to Zhu Yuanzhang, laying out the entire affair concerning Ma Yu.
When she finished writing, she handed the letter to Zhu Biao and said:
"Have a look and see if anything else needs to be added."
Zhu Biao bowed, took the letter, and after a glance, could not help feeling somewhat surprised.
Empress Ma had detailed the whole sequence of events, the results of the investigation, and what Ma Yu had said.
The only discrepancy was that she had omitted the fact that Ma Yu had hurled abuses at Zhu Yuanzhang.
It wasn't completely omitted, either; rather, she had used the Spring and Autumn style of writing.
She only stated that because he had just fled as a refugee to Yingtian and was wrongfully imprisoned by corrupt officials, Ma Yu held misunderstandings about the Great Ming and had on several occasions let loose wild and arrogant words.
After being persuaded by Zhu Biao, he had changed his tune.
As for how deep the misunderstanding was or what kind of "wild words" he had uttered, not a single mention was made.
Zhu Biao was not stupid; he naturally understood why his mother had done this.
Just as Ma Yu had said in the prison, because of his humble origins, his father placed greater value on status and dignity.
If his father were to find out that Ma Yu had cursed him by name, the matter would probably not end well.
Even if, under the persuasion of his mother and himself, his father spared Ma Yu's life, it would still be difficult for the two of them to ever get along normally in the future.
Glossing over it with a single stroke was the best method.
As for whether his father would find out the truth from elsewhere... Zhu Biao was not worried about this.
With his mother personally taking action, his father would never harbor the slightest suspicion.
Even if someone said something in front of his father, he would not believe a single word, and would instead think that person was trying to sow discord.
After reading the letter, Zhu Biao smiled and said, "Mother is wise."
Empress Ma smiled back, "Don't flatter me. I've written the letter, but whether Ma Yu lives or dies depends on you."
Zhu Biao asked with perplexity, "Me?"
Empress Ma said, "Yes. Before your father returns, dissolve Ma Yu's prejudices against the Great Ming; otherwise, you know the consequences."
Zhu Biao's expression also turned solemn, and he said, "Rest assured, Mother, I will certainly complete the mission."
Afterwards, mother and son once again exchanged thoughts centered around "Confucius, Mencius, Guan, and Xun."
After all, regardless of whether this viewpoint was the absolute truth, it was at least the clearest framework for governing a state that they currently knew of.
Studying it more deeply would inevitably yield rewards.
——
Li Residence.
Li Shanchang returned home in high spirits.
Upon learning that his eldest son, Li Zhong, knew he had humiliated Liu Bowen in front of the Empress, Li Zhong was very worried.
He feared this move would incur the Empress's displeasure.
Li Shanchang said with complete indifference, "My relationship with the Empress—is that something Liu Bowen can shake?"
"Besides, did you think I hadn't considered these things?"
"I know His Majesty's temperament best; he harbors a deep-seated hatred for illegal and criminal acts."
"My proposal for strict laws is in full accord with His Majesty's sacred heart."
"That Liu Bowen fancies himself to have some meager talent, yet he does not understand how to fathom the sacred heart and submits random, disorderly advice."
"Even if I hadn't humiliated him, His Majesty would still have disciplined him."
"As for my scolding him, His Majesty will only be pleased."
Hearing this, Li Zhong could say no more and could only change the subject to bring up another matter.
"The Crown Prince went to the Yingtian Prefecture Prison today and stayed there for a long time before coming out."
Li Shanchang picked up his teacup, took a sip, and said:
"He must have gone to see the Second Prince. Did he bring the Second Prince and Chang Mao out?"
Li Zhong shook his head and said, "Chang Mao was brought out, but the Second Prince is still in prison."
Li Shanchang shook his head and said, "It seems Her Ladyship's anger has not subsided yet. Indeed, this Second Prince is truly not a worry-free person."
Li Zhong did not dare to discuss the princes carelessly, so he said cautiously:
"Do you think we should send someone to the prison to visit the Second Prince?"
Li Shanchang waved his hand and said, "No. Her Ladyship has the Gongwei Guard guarding the prison precisely to make it clear to all the officials not to try and curry favor with the Second Prince."
"If we do that, it will only incur his displeasure."
Li Zhong nodded and said no more.
On the other side, Liu Bowen also learned about Zhu Biao's trip to the Yingtian Prefecture Prison.
He too reached the exact same judgment as Li Shanchang, and likewise warned his family not to go to the prison to visit Zhu Shuang.
Not only the two of them, but many well-connected people in the capital had also learned of this matter.
It could only be said that the imperial palace was both the most mysterious place in the world and the place with the fewest secrets.
Countless pairs of eyes stared fixedly at it, and the moment anything happened, it would immediately be perceived by the outside world.
Therefore, Empress Ma had told Zhu Biao not to visit the prison too frequently.
——
After talking with his mother until late, Zhu Biao returned to the Eastern Palace.
As soon as he returned, he ordered his men to fetch copies of *Guanzi* and *Xunzi*, preparing to study them thoroughly.
A few days later, the letter written by Empress Ma appeared on Zhu Yuanzhang's desk.